ADP testing - controlled group

[Chippy]

I have a controlled group of two plans. Plan A has deferral and profit sharing and plan B is deferral and match.   They have always passed combined 410b testing including the participants from the other plan.       They use top paid group so HCE's vary from year to year.   Some years there are none in Plan B and some years there are two or three.    Some years the ADP test fails separately, but combined with the two plans, it will pass.     

If Plan B would go to a safe harbor match,  how does that affect Plan A and the ADP testing.   Is it even allowed? 

[Tom Poje]

section 1.401(k)-1(b)(4)(iii)(B) last sentence

Similarly, an employer may not aggregate a plan (within the meaning of section 1.410(b)-7(b) using the ADP safe harbor provision of section 401(k)(12) and another plan using the ADP test of section 401(k)(3).

 

or if Willy Wonka rewrote the regs about trying to combineg a safe harbor with a non-safe harbor plan

Wonka: [angrily] Wrong, sir! Wrong! Under section 37B of the contract signed by him, it states quite clearly that all offers shall become null and void if - and you can read it for yourself in this photostatic copy - "I, the undersigned, shall forfeit all rights, privileges, and licenses herein and herein contained," et cetera, et cetera... "Fax mentis, incendium gloria cultum," et cetera, et cetera... Memo bis punitor delicatum! It's all there! Black and white, clear as crystal! You have one safe harbor plan and another non-safe harbor plan., so you get... NOTHING combined!!! You lose! GOOD DAY, SIR! [returns to work]

[CuseFan]

dude, you crack me up - that's priceless!

[CuseFan]

Now if you can train oompa loompas to do ADP testing...that would make everyone's life easier.

[Tom Poje]

they have enough problems and were only more than glad to escape their land

 

however, they di say

 

Oompa loompa doompety doo
I've got a perfect puzzle for you
Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

What will you get with that safe harbor plan?
you can’t combine just because of the ban
What are you at, now you can’t aggregate
What do you think will come of that
I don't like the look of it

Oompa loompa doompety da
If you're not greedy, you will go far
You will live in happiness too
Like the Oompa Loompa Doompety do
Doompety do

[mphs77]

Sounds like someone is in serious need of some medication.....

 

I just don't know if it is the "Poj" or myself.

[Chippy]

Tom,  will this song be performed live anytime soon? 

thanks for your help!

 

[Tom Poje]

sorry Chippy, can't perform any songs until they let me out of the asylum.

[Belgarath]

Not much hope of that...but maybe you can convince them you are a doctor - you could be the Patch Adams of the ERISA insanity wing.