Reporting of Management Fees on Form 5500

Good morning everyone!  Just curious how everyone handles management fees on the investments and reporting it on the Form 5500.  I've seen a few different things, most notably:

1. Include them as part of the Investment Gain/Loss - Line 8(b)
2. Include them as "Other Expense" - Line 8(g)

I'm not sure if it matters either way, but just curious since I've seen different things in the past.

Thanks everyone!

You mean the SF?  I think 8f.

3 minutes ago, Bird said:

You mean the SF?  I think 8f.

This is the definition of 8(f) on the 5500-SF:

The amount to be reported for expenses involving administrative service providers (salaries, fees, and commissions) includes the total fees paid (or in the case of accrual basis plans, costs incurred during the plan year but not paid as of the end of the plan year) by the plan for, among others:
1. Salaries to employees of the plan;
2. Fees and expenses for accounting, actuarial, legal, investment management, investment advice, and securities brokerage services;
3. Contract administrator fees; and
4. Fees and expenses for individual plan trustees, including reimbursement for travel, seminars, and meeting expenses.

Don't think it fits there, so I guess I'll go with the 8(g) as an other expense?

How is #2 "Fees and expenses for...investment management.." not a "management fee on the investments"??

10 hours ago, Bill Presson said:

How is #2 "Fees and expenses for...investment management.." not a "management fee on the investments"??

Yea this is about as clear as a government form can can get.  I don't think its an issue if it is included as an "other expense", but I frequently see preparers include such fees/expenses in the investment gain/loss which is clearly wrong and in some cases dishonest.

Yea, I clearly misread that!  Sorry, 8(f) it is!

I agree, including them as part of the gain/loss isn't accurate.  I've seen people do it as well

3 hours ago, RatherBeGolfing said:

Yea this is about as clear as a government form can can get.  I don't think its an issue if it is included as an "other expense", but I frequently see preparers include such fees/expenses in the investment gain/loss which is clearly wrong and in some cases dishonest.

Depends on how the assets are managed in the paying of the fee.  It it's offset against the revenue sharing or some sort of sweep arrangement then that portion is netted against the gain/loss.  If it's paid directly out of the trust then its an expense.  And is it's managed as a commission or fee paid by the insurance custodian then it goes to 10(e).