BG5150 Posted May 2, 2022 Posted May 2, 2022 On the client's census, they tell us that Jim owned 2.5% of the company last year (S Corp), and belonged to the Union. He made $121k in 2020. This year (2021) however, they tell us he owns 6% and is still in the union. Now he's an HCE for 2021. He's the only union person that defers (there's only one other). So the ADP test is failing. I thought I remember reading somewhere that a person cannot be an owner and a member of the union at the same time. How can someone be part of management and be a union employee? If that's true, how is it handled? QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
david rigby Posted May 2, 2022 Posted May 2, 2022 Is this ownership thru a qualified ESOP? I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.
BG5150 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Posted May 2, 2022 I don't think so. QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Lou S. Posted May 2, 2022 Posted May 2, 2022 Is he considered part of the union for the medical plan coverage but his wages and benefits are not subject to collective bargaining? Bri 1
Nate S Posted May 3, 2022 Posted May 3, 2022 I did have an auto-repair shop (c-corp) with a 401(k); the employees decided to unionize, the owner was going to get shafted on insurance costs because his benefits would all then considered "personal coverage" or he wasn't insurable, I forget what the core issue was. He allowed the union to come in as long as he was covered as well; agreed to an independent arbitrator for collective bargaining, and was treated as the foreman or site supervisor. The 401k was safe-harbor match with a low integration profit sharing. Since he didn't have discretion over his wages or benefits; business profits were held as retained earnings; he would eventually get double-taxed either in the dividend, or if he re-classified away from the c-corp. Otherwise, we've also had a large municipal and road contractor who with a 10-year interstate highway widening project where operators and supervisors become HCE'S. The test would vary from year to year whether or not we permissively disaggregated the union guys, but most of them were understanding enough about the "bonuses" the Plan was paying back to them. What about the other 94% of the ownership? In an s-corp they would have to have considered income so you should have other HCE'S?
BG5150 Posted May 4, 2022 Author Posted May 4, 2022 There are other partners to total 100%. He's listed as VP, too. QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
BG5150 Posted May 4, 2022 Author Posted May 4, 2022 21 hours ago, Nate S said: The test would vary from year to year whether or not we permissively disaggregated the union guys I thought you HAD to test the union EEs separately. Nate S 1 QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Nate S Posted May 5, 2022 Posted May 5, 2022 On 5/4/2022 at 8:54 AM, BG5150 said: I thought you HAD to test the union EEs separately. Sorry, I'm confusing my excludables. Is his compensation 100% attributable to his union-related services? Could it be that he belongs in both testing groups, with a split of his compensation and deferrals, or a loading of his deferrals into only one portion? Does the Plan Document delineate how to operate under such conditions, and if not, how should the Plan Administrator decide; remembering that such undefined determinations typically have to be made in favor of the participants? Can the other union participant somehow be otherwise excludable so that the union test is HCE only? Is he actually a 6% owner, or does his union membership reduce his voting power; especially where benefits are concerned, he could not participate or vote on any agreement without a conflict of interest.
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