Both Spouse and Spouse have died before RBD

Hi,  A non-owner participant, DOB 01/22/36, terminated on May 10, 2022.   His RBD was 4/1/23, I believe.   His RMD forms were forwarded in late 2023 to the plan contact when I learned of his termination.   The contact never returned the forms because she never heard from the participant.

It turns out he died on May 5, 2022.  Primary Beneficiary was his wife, DOB 2/6/40.   Turns out the wife died March 18, 2023.  Her Beneficiaries are their two adult sons.  

Questions:

1.   I am right to think that since participant died before his RBD, no RMD’s are required for 10 years? (Per a certain webcast)

2. Since the wife died before his RBD, are the distributions still delayed for 10 years?  Is the wife now considered the participant when using the tables?  Which table?

This has stumped me and my colleagues.  One colleague suggested that this is pre-Secure, so the old rules apply, which really confused me.

Help!

*Both PARTICIPANT and Spouse Have Died before RBD

Is this a DC plan or a DB plan?

Also, he was working for 5 days after he died???

I realize this is off topic from your question.  But there is a lot going on here.  If you haven't put a lot of thought on the beneficiary of the beneficiary question I would recommend going back to it.   The late wife's beneficiary election in my mind is for her account as a participant and most likely says has language making it clear the election is for her account as a participant.   I am amazed at how many plans that do say if a beneficiary can make a beneficiary election and I on a regular basis run across plans that clear say a beneficiary can't name a beneficiary for some odd reason.   I don't get why you would put the restriction in a plan but I see it.  

So the kids might end up with the money as beneficiaries or via the estate but the full repercussions of which path can be different.  I wouldn't assume figuring out who the beneficiary of a beneficiary is real easy to determine.  Maybe you already chased this down if so ignore me.  

One reason for restricting beneficiary elections is the belief that a retirement plan is for the worker and the spouse in retirement, not for estate planning and maximum generational tax deferral. The roots are found in older law, now changed, but the belief is still valid, and can go hand in hand with keeping administration as simple as possible.

On 11/8/2024 at 1:02 PM, C. B. Zeller said:

Is this a DC plan or a DB plan?

Also, he was working for 5 days after he died???

His official termination date was 5 days after he died.  This is per the plan contact.

It is a DC plan.