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Posted

Before this plan came to us, there was a partial plan termination.

Many of the accounts were distributed, but not all.  Those that remained just were given accelerated vesting.

Do the accounts of participants involved in a partial plan term HAVE to be distributed?  Or can they stay in the plan?

QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPA

Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.

  • BG5150 changed the title to Partial Plan Term--Do Accounts HAVE to be distributed?
Posted

I suppose unless there's a mandatory payout limit in the plan, there's no reason they can't stay await direction from the participant/beneficiary.

Posted

If the plan’s small-balance (for example, <= $7,000) provision does not apply and the participant has not yet reached her normal retirement age, how would the plan provide an involuntary distribution?

Peter Gulia PC

Fiduciary Guidance Counsel

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

215-732-1552

Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com

Posted

Is a partial termination a distributable event?  I say NO.

Many years ago, I did research (and posted it somewhere herein, sorry don't remember the date or which forum, possibly using my non de plume Pax) on the phrase "partial termination".  As best I recall, the phrase appears exactly twice in the entire Internal Revenue Code.  I'm not going to do that research again, but only the cite in IRC 411 is relevant to pension plans; its only impact is to award 100% vesting to certain "affected" participants.  Nothing else.  My conclusion is that the use of the word "termination" was not perfect, and was a compromise in the text, in order to get the desired result of 100% vesting.  Don't overthink it.

I'm a retirement actuary. Nothing about my comments is intended or should be construed as investment, tax, legal or accounting advice. Occasionally, but not all the time, it might be reasonable to interpret my comments as actuarial or consulting advice.

Posted

As Rigby said in my mind. 

All the rules talk about is vesting. 

Anyone terminated and made 100% vested via these rules would still have to follow the normal rules for when they get paid. 

Posted
17 hours ago, david rigby said:

Is a partial termination a distributable event?  I say NO.

Many years ago, I did research (and posted it somewhere herein, sorry don't remember the date or which forum) on the phrase "partial termination".  As best I recall, the phrase appears exactly twice in the entire Internal Revenue Code. 

@david rigby  Don't know why you wouldn't remember .... you've only been around these forums for 27 years (basically since their inception) .... and contributed more than 9000 posts/comments.  😲  Thank you!!

Anyway, just for fun -- here are the two threads I found that seem to fit your description.

From 2000:  

... and a more extensive discussion in 2002:

 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Lois Baker said:

Don't know why you wouldn't remember .... you've only been around these forums for 27 years (basically since their inception) .... and contributed more than 9000 posts/comments.  😲  Thank you!!

Yes, thank you David, and thank you Lois for pointing that out and making the rest of us feel like rookies!

Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA

Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services

kprell@bpas.com

  • david rigby changed the title to Partial Plan Term--Do Accounts HAVE to be distributed?

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