CuseFan Posted Wednesday at 07:20 PM Posted Wednesday at 07:20 PM CBP has fixed 6% interest crediting rate and (per pre-approved plan document selection) does NOT provide interim interest to the annuity starting date. Plan terminated, effective 12/31/2025 (also PYE) and will pay out on 6/1/2026, the ASD - there is no requirement to override the plan provision and provide interim interest (5/12 of 6%), correct? That's true even if we had to average prior 5 years of variable ICRs, yes? I see in the basic document the averaging requirement but nothing requiring an interim credit. Thanks Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
Effen Posted 14 hours ago Posted 14 hours ago I have heard about plans that only credit annual interest, but I have always felt that would cause a 411(d)(6) violation. I would think you would need to credit interest to the date of payment, otherwise you have a declining accrued benefit. So, I would use the 5-year average for post 12/31/25 and credit interest to 6/1 payment date. Just my opinion, others may disagree. The material provided and the opinions expressed in this post are for general informational purposes only and should not be used or relied upon as the basis for any action or inaction. You should obtain appropriate tax, legal, or other professional advice.
C. B. Zeller Posted 13 hours ago Posted 13 hours ago I re-read 1.411(b)(5)-1(e)(2) to be sure and I concur - there is nothing that would require you to use a different interest crediting period post-termination. If a full interest crediting period elapses after termination, then yes, you have to use the 5-year average of interest crediting rates as the interest crediting rate for that period. But if all distributions are completed before the end of the first interest crediting period post-termination, then no one would actually get that interest credit. Effen, I get where you're coming from. But remember, 411(d)(6) only says you can't reduce a participant's accrued benefit by an amendment. If it's part of the formula from the get-go then 411(d)(6) doesn't apply. And there is no reduction in the participant's normal retirement benefit. All you are doing is saying that if you take a distribution on day X, your lump sum will be $Y. Now Y could be less than the actuarial equivalent of the normal retirement benefit, and that's ok. In a cash balance plan, the lump sum doesn't have to be the actuarial equivalent of the normal retirement benefit, it's actually defined the other way around - the lump sum (or any alternative form of benefit) has to be not less than the actuarial equivalent of the hypothetical account balance. Since the hypothetical account balance only gets interest credits annually, then yes, it's possible that the actuarial equivalent of the hypothetical account balance will decrease throughout the year. That's expected and again it's ok. When it's not ok is if the participant is past normal retirement age, because then not applying the partial-year interest credit would result in an impermissible forfeiture of accrued benefits (unless the plan uses the suspension of benefits rule). So the accrued benefit does still have to be actuarially adjusted post-NRA to the date of benefit commencement. But for pre-retirement distributions, you're fine. Jakyasar, CuseFan and Bri 2 1 Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
CuseFan Posted 10 hours ago Author Posted 10 hours ago 3 hours ago, Effen said: plans that only credit annual interest It's a pre-approved document provision so IRS has no issue with it. Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
Peter Gulia Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago Even if you’re confident that the documents governing the plan state no provision that could tax-disqualify the plan (and do not omit a provision needed for the plan to tax-qualify): Consider that an IRS opinion letter on preapproved documents warns that it provides no assurance about ERISA’s title I. If the plan is ERISA-governed, the plan’s administrator might consider whether its reading of the plan comports with all commands of ERISA’s part 2 of subtitle B of title I (ERISA §§ 201-211). Treasury rules to interpret similar provisions of the Internal Revenue Code might be persuasive authority to support interpretations of some (not all) provisions of ERISA’s part 2. But, strictly speaking, there is no reliance on IRS-preapproved documents. This is not advice to anyone. Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Bri Posted 9 hours ago Posted 9 hours ago "No partial year interest" is great, until it's not. Which is when you have to explain to the sponsor why only the post-NRA guy gets extra gain on his prior year-end "balance." And why it's not at the plan's ICR of 4% but rather the AE of 5.5%.
Jakyasar Posted 7 hours ago Posted 7 hours ago As Cusefan indicated, it is available in IRS pre-approved document, at least the one I use i.e. no pro-rata interim adjustment is required is one of the options. I researched this, checked this and confirmed with the document vendor that no interest credit is provided until 12/31 i.e. if the ASD is 12/30, no interest crediting. FYI this was based on fixed interest rate only, nothing else. 100% in agreement with Corey on the 411d6 issue as well since this was also discussed with the vendor. FWIW QKA, QKC, QPA, CBS - I used to be indecisive about pensions but now I am not so sure
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now