Barbara Posted May 20, 2019 Posted May 20, 2019 Facts: I have a non safe harbor 401k plan that's been in effect for 10 years. Initially, the Employer adopted an "owner-only" plan that had no eligibility service or hours requirements, but he also owned another Company, that (surprise!) had employees. While not one of these employees ever worked 1,000 hours in a plan year, they were never excluded under the terms of the original plan document. There are no matching contributions, and the Employer deposited a 25% profit sharing contribution each year into his and his wife's accounts. the profit sharing allocation method is prorata under the terms of the document, and there are no allocation conditions (of course). We had planned to submit under EPCRS, as the violations don't meet the requirements for self-correction. Question: Assuming the ADP of the two HCE owners is 30%, I assume the correction for the "missed deferral opportunity' is 50% of an ADP for NHCEs that will pass the ADP test. That is, do I take 50% of 30% divided by 1.2 to arrive at a correction percent of 12.5%? This seems like a really burdensome correction, especially since I need to give everyone a 25% of pay profit sharing contribution!!! Has anyone tried to use a lower % for correction purposes?
BG5150 Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 If the other company did not adopt the plan, then why do you think they should have been given the opportunity to defer? QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 Is the plan document a “standardized” prototype plan document?
Barbara Posted May 21, 2019 Author Posted May 21, 2019 Yes, this was a standardized prototype document. the other employees should have been included because under the controlled group rules, they were all employed by the same Employer.
JustnERPA Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Barbara said: Has anyone tried to use a lower % for correction purposes If you are submitting under VCP, ask for the moon and negotiate as needed with the IRS agent to find something that the employer can afford and that the IRS can agree with, something reasonable. rr_sphr 1
BG5150 Posted May 21, 2019 Posted May 21, 2019 I think that there is no ADP test failure if no one worked more than 1,000 hours ever. They are tested separately. Or, the amount needed to pass the ADP test is zero, because no HCE was part of that excludable group except maybe the first year. Any way to try to convince the service that the intention all along was to have a YOS requirement? QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Barbara Posted May 21, 2019 Author Posted May 21, 2019 The idea of splitting the groups into Owners and "Otherwise Excludable" is a very interesting idea...wondering if anyone had ever tried that?
JustnERPA Posted May 22, 2019 Posted May 22, 2019 If the owner is the only employee over age 21 and with a Year of Service, then that would be the case. Of course, if any other employee was over age 21 and completed a year of service for eligibility then they are also grouped with the owner. But yes, we do this if testing fails and if doing improves the results. John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA 1
Barbara Posted May 23, 2019 Author Posted May 23, 2019 thanks, all. None of the employees ever worked 1,000 hours.
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