thepensionmaven Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 We know this applies to SHNE for HCEs, I do not see any mention of suspension for NHCEs, such that ADP/ACP need be met the customary way and HCEs need go through the reductions anyway, through levelling, returning , etc and the 3% top heavy need be for the full plan year. This may seem a dumb question, but how does this help the sponsor that can't afford the SHNE for NHCEs? Especially for 2019- many sponsors wait until end of year or accrue the contribution.
C. B. Zeller Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 It's no help for 2019. For 2020, it lets the sponsor suspend the SHNEC without the 30 day advance notice. It also lets the sponsor suspend the SH even if they did not provide the "maybe not" cause in their notice, and without regard to whether they are operating at an economic loss. ugueth and Luke Bailey 2 Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
Luke Bailey Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 9 hours ago, thepensionmaven said: This may seem a dumb question, but how does this help the sponsor that can't afford the SHNE for NHCEs? thepensionmaven, as C.B. Zeller explains clearly, it lets you stop making SH for rest of year, with 30-day delay of were doing safe harbor match, no delay if SHN. This gives all the relief possible with respect to employer's cash flow. Your implied complaint seems to be that ADP and ACP might not be passed for 2020, but that is not a cash outflow for the employer, so the relief is real. Also, IRS cannot rewrite the Code, only interpret it, so that was all the relief possible. A couple of months ago several BenefitsLink participants were posting about whether you could stop SH match or nonelective just for HCEs, and lamenting that it did not make sense that you couldn't, but that appeared to be the rule. Others thought you could, now the IRS has said that it's interpretation of the law is that you always could amend to stop SH just for HCEs. It's good. MWeddell, RatherBeGolfing and C. B. Zeller 3 Luke Bailey Senior Counsel Clark Hill PLC 214-651-4572 (O) | LBailey@clarkhill.com 2600 Dallas Parkway Suite 600 Frisco, TX 75034
RatherBeGolfing Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Luke Bailey said: Also, IRS cannot rewrite the Code, only interpret it, so that was all the relief possible. This is very important point. There are limits on what the regulatory agencies can do, even if the do seem to color outside the lines sometimes. Industry groups have been pushing for more legislative relief, so it may be included in the next Covid bill (assuming they get their #$%^ together and reach a compromise). ICT_Bob and Luke Bailey 1 1
thepensionmaven Posted July 10, 2020 Author Posted July 10, 2020 This was my way of thinking, as well. As you know, clients have and will continue to complain if not already that they still need contribute SHNE for NHCEs. Thanks all, I thought zi may have missed something here.
Zoey Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 I've been not so patiently waiting for this news! But what about Top Heavy? Are they still on the hook for a Top Heavy minimum? If so, that would provide relief to a very small percentage...those who have a safe harbor plan, but are not Top Heavy...?
C. B. Zeller Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 If none of the key employees defer or receive any other contributions, then there is no TH minimum. As Luke reminds us, the IRS can not rewrite the law. TH relief would have to come from Congress. Luke Bailey and ugueth 2 Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
Zoey Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 Thanks C.B. Yeah, I know that if the Key EE's don't contribute or receive any contribution, then the Top-Heavy minimum is zero, but unfortunately, that would be a very very small percentage of clients. (I have only a couple of plans where the Key EE's don't contribute.)
C. B. Zeller Posted July 10, 2020 Posted July 10, 2020 If your Keys are over age 50, one thing that can help is to put a dollar limit on deferrals of $0 for key employees only. Then they can defer up to the catch-up limit and their deferrals will be reclassified due to exceeding a plan-imposed limit. Catch-up contributions are not counted for top heavy purposes so no TH minimum. $6,500 is a lot less than $26,000, but if they absolutely can not afford the TH minimum then this is better than nothing. Luke Bailey and ugueth 2 Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
Zoey Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 Thanks C.B. Yes, good point and I agree 100%. Unfortunately most have already exceeded that. But even if it is 1% or 2% of their compensation, it's still less than 3%, right?
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