Pathology practice LLC owned by 4 doctors, had 12 other (NHCE) employees, operated a lab and sponsored a 401k safe harbor, cross-tested plan. Effective 5.1.2024, the practice LLC sold its business to Hospital, which employed all 12 staff people that had worked for practice LLC. The doctors remain employed by the practice LLC, which contracts their services to Hospital. I have little to no doubt that the practice LLC/doctors meet the IRS definition of 'hospital-based physicians'.

One of the doctors bought 1 share of Hospital. So, there is likewise no doubt that an affiliated service group now exists.

Hospital sponsors a plan that now benefits the 12 staff employees. It provides a 5%-of-pay profit sharing contribution to all Hospital employees, and sports a 401k safe harbor feature with a safe harbor match.

Here are some of my questions:

1-The practice LLC's plan can aggregate/is aggregated with the Hospital plan, right?

2-That permits the doctors to make 401k deferrals to the practice LLC's plan, to the 402g maximums, right?

3-Can the practice LLC make cross-tested profit sharing contributions to its plan for the doctors, since the employees of Hospital are receiving an amount from Hospital that serves as a gateway minimum?

4-For 2024, can the practice LLC plan compute profit sharing contributions and apply nondiscrimination rules just to the period of 1.1.2024-4.30.2024 for the 12 employees AND THE DOCTORS?

Pathology practice LLC owned by 4 doctors, had 12 other (NHCE) employees, operated a lab and sponsored a 401k safe harbor, cross-tested plan. Effective 5.1.2024, the practice LLC sold its business to Hospital, which employed all 12 staff people that had worked for practice LLC. The doctors remain employed by the practice LLC, which contracts their services to Hospital. I have little to no doubt that the practice LLC/doctors meet the IRS definition of 'hospital-based physicians'.

One of the doctors bought 1 share of Hospital. So, there is likewise no doubt that an affiliated service group now exists.

Hospital sponsors a plan that now benefits the 12 staff employees. It provides a 5%-of-pay profit sharing contribution to all Hospital employees, and sports a 401k safe harbor feature with a safe harbor match.

Here are some of my questions:

1-The practice LLC's plan can aggregate/is aggregated with the Hospital plan, right?

2-That permits the doctors to make 401k deferrals to the practice LLC's plan, to the 402g maximums, right?

3-Can the practice LLC make cross-tested profit sharing contributions to its plan for the doctors, since the employees of Hospital are receiving an amount from Hospital that serves as a gateway minimum?

4-For 2024, can the practice LLC plan compute profit sharing contributions and apply nondiscrimination rules just to the period of 1.1.2024-4.30.2024 for the 12 employees AND THE DOCTORS?

Trying to solve for a situation that keeps popping up 

- Cash balance plan 

- Participant with a deferred vested benefit dies. Death certificate indicates the individual was divorced.

- When we are on notice of a divorce through the death certificate, we ask the estate or beneficiary to provide a divorce decree or separation agreement to determine if there is a possible  DRO that was just never presented to the plan. Often times, the divorce was decades prior to the death and the beneficiary is therefore unable to locate any divorce documentation. 

- In these scenarios, does the plan sponsor have a fiduciary obligation to exhaustively seek out divorce documentation before paying benefit to estate/beneficiary? What happens if benefit is distributed to beneficiary and then ex-spouse comes forward with an old DRO. For what it's worth the plan document does not directly address these situations.  

- Would the same be true in scenarios where the participant divorced many years ago, they subsequently got remarried, and the benefit is payable to the new spouse. In these scenarios, the new spouse is almost never able to locate the divorce documentation. 

@QDROphile

We have not encountered this - first time for everything! I am, however, unsure of the exact process. So, our client joins a MEP with someone else effective (X) date - let's just say November 10. Assets will be liquidated from current investment provider, and transferred into the MEP - exactly how, not sure we care. My question is re the 5500 SF. Is the 5500 SF filed as a "final" showing the transfer on Lines 13(b) and (c)? Or would it be a full year 5500 SF since the plan isn't being "terminated." And would it be filed as a short plan year as of the date of transfer of the assets? It appears that no 5310-A would be required.

Just not sure of the process. Would it just be the new MEP that would file a 5500 for 2024, and we wouldn't file a 5500 at all? It'll be driven by the new TPA anyway, but I'd like to get a better handle on how this typically is/should be handled.

Thanks!

Hi,

Thank you all as always. A owner only DB Plan (husband and wife), has about 4,500,000 in assets. Part of the assets is a condo worth 1.5 million (they rent it out). They would like to invest further in real estate and have the plan purchase another condo, worth aprox 2 million, however the seller is willing to agree to sell it for 1.8. Is it advisable to purchase another RE Investment? It is in the same area as the first condo, so that might play a role in lack of diversification? Thank you

"The Roth catch-up wage threshold for 2024, which under section 414(v)(7)(A) is used to determine whether an individual’s catch-up contributions to an applicable employer plan (other than a plan described in section 408(k) or (p)) for 2025 must be designated Roth contributions, remains $145,000."

Why aren't they telling me today what the 2025 limit is, since this rule is first effective in 2026??

Hi there,

Does anyone know if SECURE 2.0 withdrawals are considered protected benefits?  I find conflicting information.  Some recordkeepers are enforcing it as protected benefits but I'm yet to see official guidance.  I'm wondering how others are handling and/or interpreting this?

if a participant had took a couple distributions and would like to increase the benefit formula to reach 415 limit in 2024

1) should we project the distribution amounts from the distribution dates to 12/31/2024 or simply use the actual distribution amounts?

2) do you normally calculate the 415 lump sum (excluding the exiting distributions) first then back in the accrued benefit/ cash balance credit to reach max 415 lump sum? or do you convert the exiting distributions into accrued benefit then subtract it from the 415 limit? do you handle this differently between DB and CB plans?

3) are there any guidance or regs that can answer these questions?

thanks in advance!

I understand that the monthly threshold hours that an employee must work is fewer that 130  for purposes of an ALE avoiding the shared responsibility penalty for not offering that employee coverage.

But what is the monthly threshold for full-time status to determine whether an employer is an ALE?  120 or 130?

IRS Publication 5208 states that the threshold is 130 hours:

"Under the ACA, a full-time employee for any calendar month is one who has, on average, at least 30 hours of service per week, or at least 130 hours per calendar month."

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p5208.pdf.

But, when asked this specific question in the 2014 JCEB Q/As, an IRS representative stated that the threshold was 120:

"The Service representative disagrees with the notion of using either the 130-hour monthly equivalency or 30 hours per week for the applicable large employer determination.  For the applicable large employer status, an employer does not use 130 hours.  The statute requires employers to use 120 hours.  So, for purposes of counting employees for purposes of the large employer determination, an employer counts how many employees worked at least 120 hours in a month.  Each employee who works at least 120 hours counts as one full-time employee.  It does not matter if the employee worked 121 hours or 250 hours that month, the employee counts as one employee."

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/events/employee_benefits/technicalsessions/2014_irs_qa.pdf

(Note that my reading of the statute indicates that it does not say 120 hours per month; it says 30 hours per week.)

I recognize that Publication 5208 is more authoritative than an IRS representative speaking for himself, but can anyone point to anything that specifically states the rule?  Perhaps the IRS's thinking changed?

Thanks!

2025’s limits on some kinds of early-out distributions bear what to some might seem an incongruity:
$1,000 for an emergency personal expense;
$5,000 for a birth or adoption;
$10,300 when one is a victim of domestic abuse;
$22,000 if one had a loss from a federally declared qualified disaster.

BenefitsLink neighbors, any observations?
 

So anyone who is 61, 61, 62 or 63 as of 12/31/2025 can do the super catchup for a total deferral of $34,750.  Is it that simple?  Anyone know why SECURE limited it to that odd age group?  

Thank you

Pre-SECURE, QACA default rate had to escalate to at least 6% of pay.

After SECURE, starting in 2025, auto-enroll plans must escalate to at least 10% of pay.

So must a new QACA plan for 2025 escalate to 10% of pay, or is 6% sufficient?

Let's assume an individually designed governmental DB plan received a determination letter at some time in the dim and distant past. I believe post 2017, such a plan could no longer apply for a D-letter, absent a plan termination, merger, or some other unusual situation that I can't recall. 

Has that changed?

Dad owns 100% of Dad's company.  He did a full asset sale to Son (his son, age 21+), who has created a new company for this.  The employees are terminating with Dad's Company and are being hired by Son's Company.

Dad is terminating his plan effective 1/1/24.  Son is looking to start up a plan in early 2025.  Are we (they) going to run into the successor plan rules because of the relationship between Dad and Son?  There was no direct ownership by Son in Dad's Company, and there is no direct ownership by Dad in Son's company.

Thanks.

I have a non-profit client that provides a very rich taxable reimbursement program for its C-Suite.  They've been doing this for over 30 years. They provide annual amounts for which the execs can submit claims for reimbursement that vary based on title (CEOs get $80k whereas a VP may receive $20K). The reimbursement amounts are not limited to medical claims.  For example, execs can get reimbursed for payments to his mother's nursing home payments, CPA fees and legal fees.  There is no written plan, and only about half of the execs actually utilize the full benefits each year.  There are some who have never submitted any reimbursements. Because of the medical reimbursement, I'm certain there are GHP and ERISA implications as well as nondiscrimination issues under Code section 105(h).  I've suggested to the client that it's better to provide the amount as a discretionary cash bonus because of the medical reimbursement component and because the amounts are already taxable.  I'm receiving push back because the client has been advised that since the benefits are taxable, then the above ERISA, GHP, and 105(h) implications do not apply. They also do not want to actually commit to a specified bonus amount for those who have not utilized the funds. Is there anything else they can consider that wouldn't raise ERISA and other GHP issues?  Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill? Would there be nondiscrimination issues since the benefits are taxable?  Thanks in advance.

Plan was amended, HCE's limited to 4.5% deferral.  An HCE that termed deferred 28%.   So ADP test fails.  How do I correct?  Is there any basis for refunding the one HCE his excess and not count the refund in the ADP test?

We have a participant requesting a Hardship distribution based on:

Yes I am backed up on my bills specially my mortgage, car payment and daycare 

I'm probably overthinking this, but I don't believe it falls under the IRS Hardship rules.  I just wanted to confirm

Thanks everyone!

IRS Notice 2024-80

401(k) deferral limit increases to $23,500

415 limit for DC plans increases to $70,000

HCE threshold increases to $160,000; Key employee at $230,000

401(a)(17) limit increases to $350,000

Employer has been a participated  in a MEP for several years. Not an auto enrollment  plan

As of 1/1/2025 the plan will move to a PEP.

Does the move to a PEP trigger the Auto Enrollment requirement for 2025?  Or is the plan grandfathered since it was in place prior to the Auto Enrollment Requirement.

Getting different responses from recordkeeper and TPAs?

Thank you.

Hi

Sponsor has an existing 401k plan.

Wants to add a PS plan - separate plan.

Can the new plan exclude service for vesting purposes?

Never had a plan terminated in the past 5 years.