david rigby

No guarantee that these are accurate: http://www.prudential.com/media/managed/co...ng_statetax.pdf http://www.prudential.com/media/managed/St...Withholding.pdf

Doesn't this depend (a lot) on the exact terms of the DOL order? Is the plan part of the order? In the original post, the back pay was for 2006 and 2007, but paid to EEs in 2008. When is that part of the EE's W-2? If it's 2008 W-2, can the plan modify anything for a prior year?

Isn't a partial termination always evaluated on a plan basis?

Oh no! French! Ugh.

Unlikely that anyone on these Boards can answer your questions directly, but some other thoughts: - Can the plan can issue a payment, and/or a 1099R, to a non-participant? - Did the revised 1099R change the "rollover" box, or is the form rescinded? Replaced by another form? - If the plan "recsinds" the 1099R (which is not the same as stating it is not eligible for rollover), who made the payment? - If the plan recsinds the 1099R and the Employer does not issue a different form, does that mean the entire payment is not taxable to the EE? (Having the money come out of the IRA is not sufficient information to identify what to do next.) - If the money comes out of the IRA, is it adjusted for earnings (even if negative)? - If the employer made the payment (rather than the plan), what is the proper form? - If there was tax withholding (which is required for a payment that is thought to be eligible for rollover, unless the amount is less than $200), where is it, who gets it, who gets it back, etc? - Perhaps the plan (not your client) should consider an amendment so that this employee's participation was legit (might be too late).

1. If EE was never in the plan, then how could the distribution be from the plan. If it's not from the plan, then it sure isn't eligible for rollover, but what is it? Technically, the plan (not the ER) issued the 1099R, and then amended it. Did the ER issue a 1099MISC, or other form to document the payment? 2. Maybe. Could the amount now become 2008 income??

There's a lawyer's union? AAIIEEE !!

Why is there a restriction?

If they are cut back to the administrative limit, will the ADP test pass? If not, you are going to do refunds anyway (probably).

Contact the company(s) that sponsored the plan(s). Probably ask for the Human Resources dept. If you need a start on address or other information, try http://www.freeerisa.com/. You will need to establish a (free) userID before accessing the data. Then click on "ERISA Form 5500 filings", and choose your search criteria. When you get a hit, look at the address and phone number on page 1 of the form.

Can a plan sponsor issue a 1099R? If the EE wants the ability to rollover the amount and/or not be subject to a 10% excise tax, then the payment should come from a plan/trust, not the ER. It appears the ER "messed up"; if not fixed, the EE bears the burden. Although it's a small amount, it would be prudent, as well as a learning experience, to make sure the audit trail of payments is correct. BTW, this is not a deductible expense for the ER's financial statements. But, of course, I'm not giving legal and/or accounting advice. The ER should consult the proper advisors.

I think this is the applicable reference. IRC 430(g)(3), last sentence, is amended to include reference to expected earnings: Old: ‘‘Any such averaging shall be adjusted for contributions and distributions (as provided by the Secretary).” New: ‘‘Any such averaging shall be adjusted for contributions, distributions, and expected earnings (as determined by the plan’s actuary on the basis of an assumed earnings rate specified by the actuary but not in excess of the third segment rate applicable under subsection (h)(2)©(iii)), as specified by the Secretary of the Treasury.’’

IMHO, since the changes in WRERA are retroactive, since should (must) recalculate the AFTAP at your valuation date. That replaces any prior AFTAP calculation.

I'll bite. Does it point west instead of south?

So far, that appears to be correct. The IRS could issue additional guidance that would permit the scenario you suggest.

I think that is not addressed by prop. regs. However, it may be reasonble to look at Rev. Proc. 2000-40; section 3.13 permits a change to BOY anytime, subject to the restrictions in Section 6.

Have I misread something? What about a PS plan for a pre-ret contribution/deduction? Sure it's not close to $1MM+, but it's more than zero.

Is this W-2 pay?

Would the addition of a PS plan help any?

You can find the IRS list of "standard mortality tables" in Regulation 1.401(a)(4)-12. http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-...26/26tab_02.tpl The IRS has updated it from time to time; perhaps someone else can find a link to updates.

Would a DL have any bearing on this issue? At any rate, getting a DL is (almost always) a good idea.

From what I recall, a due date for any IRS filing that falls on a weekend or holiday is automatically extended, but any other due dates are not.

Yes. I read it as revising the definition of minimum. Which section is your focus?

I doubt the size of the excess is relevant. In the cases I've seen, the (relatively) small excess is what made it easy for the sponsor to decide to amend the plan. For a one-participant plan (assuming the participant is also the owner), what reason would there be (other than 415) to give the excess to the participant, rather than the sponsor? Participant gets it eligible for rollover, but sponsor pays (at least) excise tax on it. For the year of termination, if the sponsor has cash available for a contribution, then careful management of the freeze date and termination date should make it a simple contribution.

I see terminations of employment, but not termination of the plan. Which is it?