pmacduff

Yup - that is how I would report them. My logic is that they are still a "participant" even if they did not yet receive the allocation. Think of the 401(k) deferral only plan where the employee is eligible but not deferring. They are still in the participant count but they have no balance in the Plan. On the other hand, if the Employer had not declared any profit share for the year (so there are no "receivables") I would NOT include such person in the participant's with balances count as of 12/31. My 2 cents..... (edited for wording...see underline)

I agree with Bird. They are considered participants for the plan year for the active participant count but they are not included in the "participants with balances" count. Makes perfect sense, right?

How is it that the rehire is held out of the Plan until 01/01/2010 - but if I came to work there new as of 07/16/2008 and satisfy the eligibility, then I'm in the plan earlier than the rehire? That just seems like something the DOL would be all over (keeping the rehire out an additional 5 months). I'm just trying to understand the logic here....help!

also those who delayed the 1st 2008 RMD until 04/01/2009 are required to take that RMD.

I stand by the 08/01/2009 plan entry date...the prior service is disregarded as though it never existed. From a Plan standpoint the Employee's hire date for all intents and purposes is 07/16/2008.

Laurel - my two censts I thought break-in-service rules would apply once someone becomes a participant. Why would you examine breaks-in-service for someone who never met original eligibility? In the OP's example the employee never satisfied eligibility and entered the Plan. The break-in-service rules would be examined if you were talking about the rehire of a former "participant".

The person never met the eligibility requirements nor did they enter the plan on their first go around. It's like the original time did not exist. I say they start over and if that's the case would examine the first 12 months from "rehire date" (July 2008 - July 2009) and it appears they had over 1000 in that period. I side with the client and the 08/01/2009 entry date on this one.

client just added the investment in 2008. The broker has them called a number of times and been told it was on its way and he'd have it in 2 business days (that started over 4 weeks ago!) Anyway - the broker was FINALLY able to get the info this morning via phone and pass it along to me.

FWIW, we wait until the checks have cleared. We have had checks come back for any number of reasons and, as you mentioned, like to see the Trust zeroed out completely before filing the final return. Granted we are in the small plan market but have not had any problems with this method. Some vendors don't show the liqudation until the checks clear. So if you didn't wait what would happen if you passed the next plan year end and still had $$ in the Trust account? Seems to me that doesn't qualify as having made all distributions from Plan Trust. my 2 cents.

Does anyone have the EIN and NAIC codes for a Sch A for Allianz Life Insurance Company of NY? I'm trying to wrap up an '08 plan year and no one seems to have a copy of the Sch A. The vendor keeps telling the broker they will send him another but it never materializes. I'm going to fill out all I can but wondered if anyone had the EIN and NAIC codes. (I did try the Allianz website..no luck). Thanks in advance.

the other $500,000 was referred to by the Accountant as that partner's income as a "sole proprietor". Accountant does the Partnership return and the Schedule C for only the one (50%) partner. The other two partners have a different Accountant doing those Schedule Cs for them as "sole proprietors" as well. No employees other than the ones under the Partnership 401(k). The plan covers all of the Partnership employees and consists of the 401(k) and safe harbor 3% non-elective only. The Accountant is going to send me the 1065 and K-1 info. If the partnership net income truly is $0 are the partners prohibited from elective deferrals under the partnership Plan if there is no affiliated service group?

ok - help! I have a partnership with 3 partners, 50%, 25% and 25%. Safe harbor non-elective 401(k) Plan. NHCE Employees' 3% goes in every payroll with their 401(k) deferrals. The firm's HR person left and everyone involved is not sure what partner income figures she provided us as TPA in the past. I said "no problem, let me talk to the Accountant" which I did. For 2008 the 50% partner put $20,500 into his 401(k) account (he is over 50). Neither of the other 2 partners contributed any 401(k). Accountant tells me that the bottom line on the partnership is $0.00 but that the 50% partner had $28,000 that he "took out" of the partnership and added on with his Sch C income (that is over $500,000). If the partnership income is "$0.00" doesn't that mean that none of the partner's can make ANY 401(k) contributions? The one partner's $500,000 Sch C does not impact the partnership....or does it? any assistance appreciated!

FWIW, We have the issues when the client changes to/from semi-monthly (24 pays) to/from weekly (52) or bi-weekly (26). As many have mentioned it isn't really a significant amount over the course of the loan, but you can't accurately use the original amortization in those instances and need to be sure that the loan is satisfied on or before the original date to stay within the 5 year limit.

It makes me feel better that I haven't necessarily dropped the ball preparing for this! Thanks for the input!

I posted this some time ago and never received any responses (as you can see). Has everyone already begun/completed the migration to total electronic filings? Have you already prepared your clients? any comments appreciated!

Thanks for the info Tom. I have the each Employer coded as a separate division and the Relius TH report didn't use to be able to do that. I see now that it can, but it doesn't sub-total by division. I think I'll be modifying it to fit what I need.

calling Tom Poje....HELP I have a Crystal top heavy report that I obtained from you some time ago. (I work on a multiple employer plan for which this report is and has been invaluable to me as a timesaver:)! I am on version 11 and when I went to run the report for 2009 top heavy status...it isn't working properly . The participant balances are huge. I verified the database in Crystal to update the fields but still no luck. Any ideas?

sorry for the ignorance...I'm up and running with the ING import files and it's working just fine. Helps when you read the manual eh?

ok -I have my first ING plan that I need to import to Relius. When I went onto ING to use the TPA download feature...it created files with an *.FI1 extension. Does anyone know what's up with that? My computer won't read them and Windows said it doesn't even recognize the file extension. Am I doing something incorrectly? My boss advised that ING does know that we use Relius, so I'm at a loss. Any help appreciated.

Hey BG - I have a client with a TWO year break rule for payout (small company owner is afraid someone will take the money and start a competing business!) The 2 years really gets to the participants when some of the funds are 401(k) and they remind me that "it's MY money". Oh what fun we have. I do agree about the bad advice that can be out there; I've been in pensions for 18 years and it never seems to change. I think if a client is not willing to hear you out and realize that your expertise is part of what they are paying for...maybe the client isn't worth keeping. There is an ASPPA or Corbel webcast coming up in regard to distributions and the "it's MY money and I want it now" philosophy...should be interesting.

ok - here's the situation...one participant was paid out and rolled her distribution; we prepared the 1096/1099-R forms and forwarded to the client for filing. Client filed. In the meantime, I am balancing the 2008 assets and find that the client paid out another participant (also a rollover) but had not sent us the normal notification of distribution for our files. Can I send the client another 1096/1099-R form for this 2nd payout? That seems to me to be the easiest fix. Everything on the first 1096/1099-R reporting was accurate for the one payout, so I don't really need to file that as "corrected". I found, in the instructions, the correction for a form that was included that shouldn't have been, but this is the opposite the form was not in the original group but should have been. Please let me know your thoughts!

We have had clients without fidelity bonds under IRS audit and the auditor did just make them obtain one asap and show proof. We also had another client who had not kept the coverage amount updated who was required to update the bond immediately and show the auditor the proof. These plans were both with major 401(k) vendors, however, so who knows if that made a difference. For many years it seemed that no one new whether the fidelity bond really was REQUIRED. Then I remember that once the DOL got more involved in 401(k) plans and compliance, it seems that they are stating that it is absolutely a requirement and not optional. For those of you who are ASPPA members a recent ASPPA ASAP addresses this very issue and (as I mentioned) the DOL position on bonding that it is required for all plans.

Thanks so much! I have to assume this just became available because I have been checking the IRS website pretty consistantly for the last few weeks!!!

we have a small number of balance forward plans for which we prepare the 1096, 1099-R and 945 forms. For those clients who receive a 945 form, I like to include a copy of the instructions for the form. However this year I can't seem to find any. On the IRS website, the form is there but no instructions. Relius Goverment forms doesn't have the 945 form/instructions available yet. I know the filings are pretty straightforward, but does anyone have a copy of '08 instructions? I like to verify the mailing address each year...many years ago I had a colleague who sent all her client letters with the previous year's filing address which unfortunately was changed!!!

we are taking over a large non profit organization profit sharing plan. The plan excludes certain divisions. As I set this up on Relius I want to make sure that I am coding employees in that division properly as far as category/eligibility so that they are counted correctly for coverage. I did look on the Relius support site for guidance but couldn't find anything relative. Thanks in advance.