RatherBeGolfing

You could be fine as is, but the IRS could also take the position that the 5500 was never technically filed until it was filed with the audit and therefore late by almost a year. Either way, DFVC should still be available. On a related note, the IRS recently did a webcast on practicing before the IRS and the topic of filing incomplete returns or responses for the purpose of meeting deadlines or as a stalling procedure during audit could lead to an OPR review if the practitioner is subject to Circular 230. Unlikely that our 5500 example would lead to anything but I wanted to mention it since it was discussed during the webcast.

No. If you file your 5500 late you will get a notice telling you that your late filing penalty is a certain amount but that you can go through DFVC and pay the user fee instead. So DFVC is still available after filing the 5500

Hardship distributions are not rollover eligible though. § 402(c)(4)

It would probably only get caught if the participant complains or as a byproduct of an unrelated investigation. More damning if it isn't an isolated incident which is beyond the fact pattern, but where there is smoke there is usually fire...

2015 ASPPA Annual IRS Q&A Q#18 Can a participant could return a hardship distribution to the plan if the reason for the hardship was no longer valid? Example – I contract to buy a house, request a hardship distribution that is granted to me. After I get the money the house sale falls through. ASPPA Proposed Answer There is no mechanism for returning an unused hardship distribution to the plan. A deposit of those funds back to the plan would constitute an after-tax employee contribution. The fact that the reason for the hardship was valid at the time it was made is sufficient for the hardship distribution to be permissible, so there is no qualification problem with the fact that the house purchase ultimately fell through. The participant should likely bank the proceeds of the distribution in anticipation of ultimately buying a different house. IRS Panel Response To be discussed from the podium My Notes on IRS Answer From Podium The hardship is permissible because it was valid at the time of distribution. There is no procedure to allow the return of a valid hardship distribution to the plan. The money stays with the participant. *Edited for formatting

FWIW, this was the IRS answer to this question last year or the year before at ASPPA Annual. Of course, this is only the panelist's opinion, but it makes sense. I'll see if I can find the written answer (if any), or my notes on the answer.

Absolutely. The PA's problems do not end with the participants failure to bring an actionable claim... We can only hope this PA is nowhere near any of our plans

I agree that a court would (and should) most likely dismiss the participant's claim.

No I haven't seen it in practice, and there really is no reason for a 5558 filing to trigger an audit. A 5500 filing that indicates that the plan should have had past filings will probably trigger a response asking why prior years were not filed. I see no benefit in filing anything for the current year until you have the past years ready to file (or already filed) with the proper correction.

I agree with Mike. Filing the 5558 should not trigger them to ask for the 5500, but why take the chance? Likewise, why file the current year before you are ready to submit your past years if there is even a chance that they will ask for the past years before you are ready to submit them? It isn't going to cost more to include the current year in your DFVC filing, just submit them all at the same time.

Yea but without badly written regs we would lose out on so much fun... So maybe the unedited comment wasn't so far off after all

An average MyRA savings of $1,700 at an average taxpayer cost of $3,500...

Either way is fine. The only time the extension is going to matter is if they get it past the original due date.

As I remember it, you would get a wristband for Thirsty Thursday but you had to get the cheap beers from one particular beer stand... After a while, the 30 minute wait in the cheap beer line got to be to much and many would just get regular priced beers.

I might have gotten my promos mixed up since I lived in Jax at the time... But I am pretty sure Mike was first with Tonya Harding Bat Night. The Suns used to do quarter beer night every now and then which was a crowd pleaser for sure

Most of the crazier promotions are done at the minor league level. As sad as it is, Tonya Harding Bat Night has been done by more than one organization but I believe Mike Veeck was the only one to actually get Tonya Harding to attend and sign the mini bats. This is from the same mind that did a "Vasectomy Night" promotion for a Father's Day game, where one lucky dad won a free vasectomy...

No worries :)

Well I should probably say that I meant favorite as in who the hell came up with this idea rather than what a great idea! But that is what you get from the Veeck's, nothing is off limits

My favorite Bill Veeck and Mike Veeck promotions include "Tonya Harding Bat Night" and "Nobody Night", but "Disco Demolition" clearly had the worst outcome

You need a PPA restatement.

Are there still assets in the plan?

A does not prove B. Just because it comes from a federal prosecutor does NOT mean it is enforceable. For what its worth, the EOB only mentions the 9th as having adopted this position. That doesn't mean that other circuits haven't, but Sal is pretty good about updating things like that. As to the original question, withholding does apply, but there is no penalty for premature distribution. For your reading pleasure, see the 2017 ERISA Outline Book Chapter 3B - Part 2 - Section XI - Part A.

Gotcha thanks. My very limited understanding was that federal court could order garnishment because it would be treated as a tax. But now that I think of it, that would probably be limited to fines ordered by the court since it is payable to the government rather than a third party.

No authority in general, or in the orders you received?

It is times like these when I am so happy that I deleted my facebook back when myspace was still the more popular alternative...