RatherBeGolfing

April 18

Honestly, you probably just need to find a better person to talk to at the RK... This sounds like it is coming from someone who just does not understand plans

The recordkeeper is not just wrong, they are so wrong it is cause for concern... I agree with what you are illustrating, but I would say that the last year of service is not really earned until the end of the limitation year (12/31/2017) so it would be 30 months for the 3 years.. Unless the participant terminated right at the 24 month mark of course...

I agree with ETAs analysis above.

I agree, check with your document provider. That said, I think ADP only is correct.

Enjoy!!!!

I agree, amend and file with audit.

Thanks. I was able to convince the sponsor that refunding the deferral will be cheaper in the long run :)

I'll second this

YES.

Owners son would have entered plan 1/1/2017 but was allowed to defer in 2016 against our advice, and now I am dealing with the fallout. The owner insists on a correction method other than refund. I have 2 or 3 NHCEs who did not get the opportunity to participate early. Can I retroactively amend to bring in the son and 2-3 NHCEs since it would benefit more NHCEs than HCEs? And if I do include the NHCEs, would they also need to get QNECs for missed deferral opportunities + match since they weren't given an option to defer?

I don't think so, but time will tell. The memo is not guidance, it is a guideline for IRS examiners. It also only directs the examiner that plans should be treated as satisfying the substantiation requirements if all the steps in the memo are met. If the steps of the memo are not met for whatever reason, we are right back to square one.

The IRS confirmed last year that the date that should go on the form is the technical extension date (the 15th). If that date falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or a legal holiday, the return may be filed on the next day that is not a Saturday, Sunday, or a legal holiday. You filed with the correct date, and can still file the 5500 on the next day that is not a Saturday, Sunday, or a legal holiday.

I think getting the questions on the form was the easy part. actually getting the data and dealing with it is the costly part. From what is going on with det letters, allocation of resources may be one of the bigger issues

I think it is a mix of reprogramming and allocation of resources for the IRS. On the DOL side it is a funding issue for sure.

As of right now, there is nothing official indicating if and when new compliance questions may be effective. Unofficially, I have heard repeatedly that they don't even have the funding to use the "don't complete this section" compliance questions that are currently on the form, and the 5500 overhaul has similarly been put on ice. From the comments at ASPPA last year, maybe by 2019... Janice W was one of those who said don't expect anything anytime soon, the money isn't there for it

What does the document say? Are distributions allowed immediately after termination or do they have to wait?

How long has electronic renewal been an option for ERPA renewals? I renewed today through Pay.gov and I don't remember that being an option last time I renewed. Easy to fill out and got a confirmation that both my form and payment had been accepted

Yep. It really shouldn't be more complicated than that. The fact that the CPA made a mistake on the sponsor's return doesn't taint the contributions, the return just has to be amended to show the correct contribution.

Or just don't let them invest in stuff that will become an issue

I'm not sure I see discretion here (or authority and control). You have no discretion over how the funds are invested, the investments are made per the sponsors investment directive. You also have no discretion over when the funds are invested since the service agreement gives you a 4 day turnaround between deposit and investment. That is an administrative delay, not a judgment call by the actuary. I agree this seems like a waste of time for an actuary.

$37,500 contributed in 2016, why not simply amend the 2015 return to be within both limits and count the remainder as a current year contribution deducted in 2016? Why insist on calling it a 2015 annual addition or excess?

That is interesting, especially since they now want to encourage more people to fully correct through VFCP... I deal primarily with the Atlanta office, and haven't had any issues. I often hear that the Philly office is one of the tougher ones to deal with so the fact that you have had good experiences is nice to hear.

Im pretty sure it stems from PTE 2002-51. Note that for the PTE, simply depositing the amount as earnings is not enough, you also need to go through VFCP. PTE 2002-51 (my emphasis in bold)

Wow. I have never had any issues with VFCP for late deposits other than taking forever. Could just be luck of the draw though. Out of curiosity, which regional office handled the filings?