Jim Chad Posted August 15, 2012 Posted August 15, 2012 Does water and sewer shutoff notice qualify for Hardship Safe Harbor?
Jim Chad Posted August 16, 2012 Author Posted August 16, 2012 ERISATOOLKIT, Thanks for the confirmation.
BG5150 Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Nope Correct. But I thought the smiley face was a little mean. Seems like you were happy the person is getting sewer shut off... QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Jim Chad Posted August 16, 2012 Author Posted August 16, 2012 No. The smiley face was for me. This the rare questions which had a simple, unambiguous answer.
BG5150 Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 No. The smiley face was for me. This the rare questions which had a simple, unambiguous answer. O, I figured that. The presentation was a bit off, tho' QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
ETA Consulting LLC Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 No. The smiley face was for me. This the rare questions which had a simple, unambiguous answer. "Like". CPC, QPA, QKA, TGPC, ERPA
QDROphile Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 While I love simple and unambiguous answers, I also love imagination. Could you bring yourself to believe that utility shut-off is constructive eviction? A plan adminisrator's job is difficult enough and the simple negative will keep away from trouble.
ETA Consulting LLC Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Could you bring yourself to believe that utility shut-off is constructive eviction? I actually tried and after five minutes began to wonder what in the heck I was doing. I got as far as: Pursuant to real estate law in some states, there is a process of effective eviction. For instance, if your landlord takes the front door off your apartment, then that would be an effective eviction because this action made it impossible to live there. Then I tried to relate that to the fact pattern and began to ask what in the heck I was doing. CPC, QPA, QKA, TGPC, ERPA
MoJo Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Could you bring yourself to believe that utility shut-off is constructive eviction? I actually tried and after five minutes began to wonder what in the heck I was doing. I got as far as: Pursuant to real estate law in some states, there is a process of effective eviction. For instance, if your landlord takes the front door off your apartment, then that would be an effective eviction because this action made it impossible to live there. Then I tried to relate that to the fact pattern and began to ask what in the heck I was doing. Yea. Not a road you want to go down. I actually had a tenant (I moonlight as a landlord) that stopped paying utilities, and eventually stopped paying rent. I ended up evicting him, but by the time everything happened, the electric, water and gas had been off for 9 months (the wheels of justice turn slowly sometimes in Ohio - and Christmas intervened - with a judge that didn't like to throw people to the curb at that time of year).... Not what I would call an "imminent" financial hardship for him (but a serious one for me....) By the way, if the power has been off for a while, don't open the refrigerator. Just buy a new one, and have them haul the old one away. I speak from experience on this....
shERPA Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 Don't pay the rent, use the money to pay the water and sewer bill instead. Then apply for a hardship to pay the back rent to avoid eviction. I carry stuff uphill for others who get all the glory.
Peter Gulia Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 shERPA's observation reminds us of one of the soft spots of the rules for a hardship (or unforeseeable-emergency) distribution - recognizing that the fungible nature of money can interfere with distinguishing between allowed and unallowed purposes and how they affect a participant's claim to use her retirement account. A plan's administrator sees the claim before it, but ordinarily lacks information on the complete picture of the participant's uses of money. A participant who submits an unpaid bill for something that the plan recognizes as a hardship might have used up money that could have gone toward that unpaid bill on paying for something that the plan does not recognize as necessary. But it's the administrator's job to apply the plan's terms to the claim that is submitted. Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
masteff Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 As I said to participants more than once: "Congress and the IRS have much narrower definition of what a hardship is than you or I do". Kurt Vonnegut: 'To be is to do'-Socrates 'To do is to be'-Jean-Paul Sartre 'Do be do be do'-Frank Sinatra
ETA Consulting LLC Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 "Congress and the IRS have much narrower definition of what a hardship is than you or I do". "Like" I am actually going to use this. CPC, QPA, QKA, TGPC, ERPA
Lou S. Posted August 17, 2012 Posted August 17, 2012 As one who once tried to live in our house with 2 small children while our sewer line was repaired and we did not have sewer or water for 3 days, I can say that that should definietly qualify as a hardship. The hotel say after day 1 was nice though.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now