BG5150 Posted October 25, 2021 Posted October 25, 2021 Plan requires 2 years of service to be eligible for the PS component. Therefore 100% vesting required. Plan is 401(k) Plan. If the Employer does not want to make a Profit Sharing contribution, but a TH is required, can the TH contribution be on a vesting schedule? QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Bill Presson Posted October 25, 2021 Posted October 25, 2021 Not if you are requiring 2 years eligibility. ***edited to add that my brain wasn't registering the 401(k) part and this was a silly answer*** Luke Bailey 1 William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
BG5150 Posted October 25, 2021 Author Posted October 25, 2021 Why? The document says there must be an Employer contribution? It doesn't say it has to be a match or non-elective? QKA, QPA, CPC, ERPATwo wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
Bird Posted October 25, 2021 Posted October 25, 2021 I don't know how you do it administratively (system-wise that is) because in our world TH mins get built into PS but yeah, I think you could say "no PS this year" and then just have the TH as a stand-alone...on a different schedule with vesting over time - of course that should be in the document already. Luke Bailey 1 Ed Snyder
C. B. Zeller Posted October 25, 2021 Posted October 25, 2021 It could certainly be done by having two separate plans - a 401(k), that provides the TH minimum and has a vesting schedule, and a separate PS plan that has 2-year eligibility and 100% immediate vesting. Whether it could be done in one plan depends on what the document says. For example, the FT William doc that we use says that the top heavy vesting schedule will only apply to the extent it is more favorable than the plan's regular vesting schedule. That language would seem to preclude doing this in a single plan. Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
Bird Posted October 25, 2021 Posted October 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, C. B. Zeller said: the FT William doc that we use says that the top heavy vesting schedule will only apply to the extent it is more favorable than the plan's regular vesting schedule. Good point. We use FTW and while I did do a quick look at the AA section, I didn't go to the BPD where this is found. Ed Snyder
Luke Bailey Posted October 26, 2021 Posted October 26, 2021 14 hours ago, BG5150 said: Plan requires 2 years of service to be eligible for the PS component. Therefore 100% vesting required. Plan is 401(k) Plan. If the Employer does not want to make a Profit Sharing contribution, but a TH is required, can the TH contribution be on a vesting schedule? But participants would be eligible for top-heavy after one year? Bill Presson 1 Luke Bailey Senior Counsel Clark Hill PLC 214-651-4572 (O) | LBailey@clarkhill.com 2600 Dallas Parkway Suite 600 Frisco, TX 75034
John Feldt ERPA CPC QPA Posted October 26, 2021 Posted October 26, 2021 Unless the safe harbor top-heavy exemption applies, once they are eligible to defer and the plan is top-heavy, then the non-key employees must get a top-heavy minimum allocation, even if they are not yet eligible for profit sharing, match, and even if they don’t defer. Since the plan allows deferrals and can’t require more than a 1 YOS requirement for deferral eligibility, they have to provide the top-heavy before they’ve met the 2-year eligibility requirement for the PS portion of the plan. Bill Presson and Luke Bailey 2
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