RPP2001 Posted September 12, 2022 Posted September 12, 2022 I have a client that would like to make a profit sharing contribution by her 2021 extended tax filing deadline of 9/15/22 for the 2021 plan year. We can get the calculation done, but, the existing 401(k) plan does not currently offer profit sharing. Is it permitted under the SECURE Act to retroactively add a profit sharing feature to an existing 401(k) plan for a prior year? This is not starting a brand new qualified plan (such as profit sharing or cash balance) retroactively (which is pretty clear in the SECURE Act as acceptable) but instead adding the profit sharing feature to an existing 401(k) plan. As a side note, if it matters for context, this is a solo plan (husband and wife). Thank you.
Bill Presson Posted September 12, 2022 Posted September 12, 2022 Can't do it. Create a new plan and merge them. Should have allowed PS in the 401(k) from the beginning. Luke Bailey and CuseFan 2 William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
Peter Gulia Posted September 12, 2022 Posted September 12, 2022 If one does it as Bill Presson describes, is it feasible for the merger of the second plan with and into the first plan to happen immediately after creation of the second plan AND retroactive to January 1, 2022? If so, could one do all Form 5500 reporting solely on plan 001? Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Bill Presson Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 I would be interested in a way of doing a retroactive merger. I'm not aware that can work. Peter Gulia, RatherBeGolfing and CuseFan 2 1 William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
RatherBeGolfing Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 15 hours ago, Peter Gulia said: If one does it as Bill Presson describes, is it feasible for the merger of the second plan with and into the first plan to happen immediately after creation of the second plan AND retroactive to January 1, 2022? If so, could one do all Form 5500 reporting solely on plan 001? Outside of VCP (where just about anything is possible), I don't think it is possible. Peter, even if you established and merged plan 002 with plan 001 immediately and retroactively, why wouldn't a 5500 for 002 be necessary? The financial reporting would be in plan 001, but you would still have to report participant counts and plan characteristics for plan 002 since they are eligible for the PSP at creation. If we accept that creation of plan 002 created the eligibility for a PS contribution, that plan existed and must be reported. Creative solutions to the retroactive merger aside, I don't see a way out of the reporting. Bri, Bill Presson, Peter Gulia and 1 other 3 1
Peter Gulia Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 My question was completely about my intellectual curiosity (recognizing my lack of experience with corrections). Thank you for the education. And in a fog yesterday, I missed that one wouldn’t assert the second plan as the source of the merged plan’s provision for nonelective contributions without reporting on that second plan. Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
RatherBeGolfing Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Peter Gulia said: My question was completely about my intellectual curiosity (recognizing my lack of experience with corrections). Thank you for the education. And in a fog yesterday, I missed that one wouldn’t assert the second plan as the source of the merged plan’s provision for nonelective contributions without reporting on that second plan. Happy to help Peter. Being curious in this industry gives you many rabbit holes to go down.
jsample Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 You might not need to file a 5500EZ for either plan if the combined assets are less than $250,000.
RatherBeGolfing Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 1 hour ago, jsample said: You might not need to file a 5500EZ for either plan if the combined assets are less than $250,000. They both will eventually.
truphao Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 Establish a new PS Plan retro for 2021. You do not need to file 5500 for 2021 for that plan. You will need to file a separate 5500 for that PS for 2022. Merge existing 401(k) and newly established PS effective 12.31.2022.
truphao Posted September 13, 2022 Posted September 13, 2022 when you do the merger effective 12.31.2022 merge "old" plan into the new one to address "permanency" issue (I am assuming "old plan" has been in existence for a while).
RPP2001 Posted September 14, 2022 Author Posted September 14, 2022 Thanks all, we figured the only solution was indeed starting a new plan and doing the merger and handling the reporting/filings for both plans. I still don't understand why the SECURE Act wouldn't permit just retroactively amending the existing plan to add the feature. We end in the same place, except the client wouldn't have all these filing and reporting requirements and steps (and, not to mention our associated fees) for now two plans between the two years. We come across quite a few plans, unfortunately, that we takeover to handle the work for the prior year that do not have a profit sharing feature that would otherwise benefit the client.
Bill Presson Posted September 14, 2022 Posted September 14, 2022 1 hour ago, RPP2001 said: We come across quite a few plans, unfortunately, that we takeover to handle the work for the prior year that do not have a profit sharing feature that would otherwise benefit the client. We can't set up all the new plans, so we're grateful for the silly people that screw things up and enable us to grow via takeovers. RPP2001 1 William C. Presson, ERPA, QPA, QKA bill.presson@gmail.com C 205.994.4070
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now