Peter Gulia Posted December 21, 2022 Posted December 21, 2022 Under soon-to-be-enacted Internal Revenue Code § 414A, some new § 401(k) or § 403(b) plans must include an automatic-contribution arrangement. For small-business employers not excused as too new or too small, could this new tax-qualification condition slow down creations of new plans? Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Popular Post Bird Posted December 21, 2022 Popular Post Posted December 21, 2022 Yes. I am semi-retired and moving more and more towards retired. I don't want to deal with the part-time/permanent stuff and this auto contribution stuff, and I'm thinking that my typical micro clients don't want to either. I get it, and if I had not been in business but just worked in government I would think it's all great. I forget the description for this - behavioral economics? - and I guess it works, but not all companies have 10,000 employees. I might sound like a neo-con but I'm pretty far from it, but being in the trenches does give one a different perspective. Luke Bailey, Lou S., Peter Gulia and 2 others 4 1 Ed Snyder
Peter Gulia Posted December 21, 2022 Author Posted December 21, 2022 Bird, thanks. Others' outlooks and views? Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Belgarath Posted December 21, 2022 Posted December 21, 2022 So funny, but I was in the middle of typing my response that it might slow down MY creation of new plans... Honestly, I haven't bothered to keep up on SECURE 2.0, as my mentality has been that I'd deal with it when it passed. Now I'll apparently have to deal with it. Retirement looks more attractive than it did a couple of weeks ago, but I can't QUITE do it yet. Bill Presson 1
Popular Post CuseFan Posted December 21, 2022 Popular Post Posted December 21, 2022 I agree - all those provisions that sound great for enhancing overall retirement plan coverage just make things more complicated and error-prone for the small and unsophisticated (from an HR perspective) employer that they serve as a detriment. Fewer employers will want to adopt these plans, fewer providers will want or be able to serve these plans, and administrative costs will increase, wiping out the short term tax credit savings. I've been in this business for nearly 40 years, have done both DC and DB in terms of administration, plan documents and compliance, and remember when DBPs were the complex animals no one wanted any more. Now, DBPs and CBPs look pretty simple compared to the modern and continually evolving 401(k) plan environment. Maybe all the heads of the states' with those new mandatory retirement plans met in a NYC pizza parlor and conspired with the Federal government to make 401(k) plans so damn complicated that no small employer would dare set one up and thereby drive all their employees into the mandatory state plans, just saying. hnh93, AlbanyConsultant, Bill Presson and 5 others 7 1 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
Peter Gulia Posted December 21, 2022 Author Posted December 21, 2022 CuseFan, your observations remind me of a business story. (I’m about three years older than you and, like you, went into the biz in 1984.) In the 1990s, a mid-size employer (about 20,000 employees) told my client, a growing recordkeeper, it could not be considered unless the recordkeeper alone would receive all salary-reduction agreements and the recordkeeper’s computer would feed all deferral instructions into the paymaster’s computer. The employer’s paymaster would never receive any paper, and would not lift a finger for any data entry. The paymaster would not look for errors. (How could it? The paymaster had no source information.) The recordkeeper had to indemnify the employer against all deferral errors, and for any failure in keeping records. That setup won’t work for small-business employers. But is integration of recordkeepers’ and payroll-service providers’ software a way forward? Luke Bailey and CuseFan 2 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
CuseFan Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 22 hours ago, Peter Gulia said: is integration of recordkeepers’ and payroll-service providers’ software a way forward? Yes, that is likely the best path forward, and many payroll providers and recordkeepers have 360 degree integration, although I think some payroll providers stay 180 so their bundled product can maintain an administrative edge. Still, keeping all relevant information current and accurate in payroll records is a challenge for both larger employers with HR departments because of sheer volume and smaller employers without the dedicated resources to handle in real time. Thankfully (hopefully?) we now have a technological savvy generation that can tackle this, but it doesn't matter how great the technology is if the system inputs are incomplete or inaccurate - or as our generation says, garbage in garbage out. Another thought - will these changes accelerate consolidation of the provider market, driving out smaller recordkeepers and TPAs, while the 500 gorillas Fidelity and Vanguard et al get even fatter? Luke Bailey and Peter Gulia 1 1 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
JRN Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 Auto enrollment is, of course, a good thing in that it helps get eligible employees enrolled and participation rates go up. But, if participation rates go up, so too does the cost of the Employer match. So, yes . . . requiring auto enrollment could affect small employers' willingness to start new plans. Luke Bailey and Peter Gulia 1 1
Coleboy1 Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 I agree with everyone. Retirement is looking pretty good as I don't know if my old brain can keep up with all of this new stuff. I have large client that has many part time people as well as per diems ( who aren't allowed in the plan). Thinking of this just makes my head spin. Early retirement, maybe? Is there still such a thing?
Lou S. Posted December 22, 2022 Posted December 22, 2022 21 minutes ago, Coleboy1 said: I agree with everyone. Retirement is looking pretty good as I don't know if my old brain can keep up with all of this new stuff. I have large client that has many part time people as well as per diems ( who aren't allowed in the plan). Thinking of this just makes my head spin. Early retirement, maybe? Is there still such a thing? Secure (1.0?) might have already brought a number of those into the plan as of January 1, 2023...at least for eligibility for 401(k). Luke Bailey 1
Peter Gulia Posted December 22, 2022 Author Posted December 22, 2022 JRN, don't the safe-harbor plan designs allow a smaller matching contribution if the plan has the fitting automatic-contribution arrangement? Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
Popular Post imchipbrown Posted December 22, 2022 Popular Post Posted December 22, 2022 Happily retired but enjoy reading benefitslink to reconfirm my decision. CuseFan, Bri, Luke Bailey and 2 others 1 4
MoJo Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 Cost and complexity (distraction from running a business) are the two most often expressed reasons for not having a plan. Secure 2.0 will effectively increase costs and increase complexity. The answer to the OP's question is, in our humble opinion a resounding: YES. Peter Gulia 1
ErnieG Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 Yes it will certainly increase the employer's cost in contribution, and administrative fees and soft in-house costs. Their approach is wrong, financial literacy is the answer. There are many ways individuals can save for the future, but do they, not. I am amazed by the simple fact that many individuals fail to establish an emergency fund, let alone saving for retirement. And the number of individuals who do not have a budget. Education and focusing on those less served is the answer. Just my 2 cents (or 1 cent now a days!). Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and all the best to all for a safe and healthy New Year. CuseFan 1
Peter Gulia Posted December 23, 2022 Author Posted December 23, 2022 Mojo, thank you for your observation. To extend the discussion, imagine a small-business employer is subject to a State’s or municipality’s law that imposes a play-or-pay tax or other monetary consequence on having no retirement-savings opportunity. Is such an employer’s administration burden for a new 401(k) plan’s automatic-contribution arrangement much harder than the burden for administering default and affirmatively elected payroll contributions under a State’s or municipality’s Individual Retirement Account program? Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
jsample Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 I believe it will slow plan sales for smaller employers. Automatic enrollment is not a popular option in the plans that we currently sell. A little off topic, but existing plan sponsors will also have stressful administrative changes coming. Almost all plans without Roth will need to be amended to allow Roth contributions. Do you think payroll providers will be on top of switching from pre-tax contributions to Roth contributions once an employee earning more than $140,000 reaches the deferral limit? And how about recordkeepers, will they need to convert pre-tax 401(k) contributions to Roth contributions if they need to get reclassified as catch-up contributions due to a failed test, for employees earning more than $140,000? The March 15th deadline is stressful enough as it is, let alone adding additional nuances for corrections that make sense in theory put are going to be difficult in actual administration. Peter Gulia 1
C. B. Zeller Posted December 23, 2022 Posted December 23, 2022 I don't disagree with the points of view expressed so far. Beyond just the requirement for automatic enrollment, the requirement for automatic escalation is likely to be burdensome, as it requires the employer to separately track which employees have and have not made an affirmative election, potentially for as long as 12 years after they first became eligible! Small comfort though it may be, we do get a safe harbor correction method in SECURE 2.0 sec. 350 which should make it easier to stay in compliance for an employer whose implementation is less than perfect. Peter Gulia 1 Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
Peter Gulia Posted December 23, 2022 Author Posted December 23, 2022 Another challenge for a recordkeeper’s software is slotting and maintaining an indicator to distinguish between a cash-or-deferred arrangement created before December 23, 2022 (and so unburdened by new I.R.C. § 414A(a)), and one created on or after. Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
CuseFan Posted January 3, 2023 Posted January 3, 2023 Or as Danny Glover lamented in Lethal Weapon, "I'm getting too old for this s _ _ _ !" Bill Presson and Coleboy1 1 1 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
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