Bill Presson

@ill I answered your questions. This is a board for consultants to discuss various provisions. It's not free advice for people that don't want to pay. Hire someone to provide you expert assistance and quit being cheap.

Then just ignore my last line.

Nice to have you visit, Tom. Enjoy the time!

I'm definitely not one to flout the rules and I despise the "no show" jobs whether it's family or Family (if you know what I mean). But it's also not unheard of for an owner and/or spouse to work for quite some time for their own business without taking a paycheck. If the employer can provide evidence the spouse actually did work during that time and just wasn't compensated, then I think making the spouse eligible on the first paycheck isn't unwarranted. But we don't make those calls just like we don't make the calls on whether someone is an employee or an independent contractor. We provide information and the employer and CPA tell us what's what.

For sole proprietors, the compensation is considered "earned" on December 31, but not technically determined until the 1040 is done. So the deferral deposits can be made up until the 1040 is filed. However, the owner must have made an election to defer on or before the prior December 31 because all 401(k) deferrals have to be elected before the compensation is earned. After-tax contributions have to be deposited by January 31 in order to be credited for the prior year. The Roth conversion typically takes place on the same day of the after tax contribution deposit. You as an employer can still make employer contributions up until your filing deadline. So, it's likely that all your deadlines have passed except for the employer contribution.

We see this done, essentially, when the two plans have maintained a combined trust for years. The assets "transfer" to the DC plan in bookkeeping form on an effective date.

I recommend this: Certified Plan Sponsor Professional It's a designation offered from the Plan Sponsor side of the industry.

If you've been paid for 2022 AND if the 2023 5500 will be for a period of less than 7 months, can't you file the 2022 5500 and indicate the audit will be on the next 5500? Doesn't actually solve the problem but kicks it down the road a bit. You'll still need to get someone to sign.

This is the part your client needs to focus on. Whatever payrolls exist from 10/1-12/31, you need to allow the participants to defer from them. So if the payrolls are on the 15th and the end of the month, you've got an extra few weeks to make things work. If the first payroll in October is 10/6, it's a much shorter time frame.

I wouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of the policy being key man especially in a pooled plan. I do think the existence of the other policy would tend to support that they were intended as individual coverage. But there has to be something to show that the premiums were taken only from the insureds' accunts.

Just for an update. After my post above I called and was told it was approved and mailed. Never got it. Waited another 30+ days and called near the end of June. I was told it was approved and a new copy mailed. Never got it. Finally called on Monday (9/11). Just happened to speak with the same IRS rep that I spoke with in May. He actually was a little perturbed that I didn't get it yet and promised me I would get this one. Good news, I got the new enrollment card yesterday. It was mailed 9/11. Felt a little like Steve Martin when the new phone book arrived.

Agree with Paul. Just move the dollars to a forfeiture/suspense account and have the company use it to offset a contribution. Don't overcomplicate it.

Agreed

The smart ones do. I had malpractice coverage when I owned my own TPA from 1986-1998 and our trust company that I merged into did as well. Haven't been an owner since the mid 2000's but I'm pretty sure the firms I've worked with since then have the coverage as well.

IRS announced they fixed the "glitch" (shades of Office Space) and will allow clients to ignore any late filing letter dated before 9/1. IRS Clarifies 8955 notices

Had a similar situation with a client back when I was in Lexington, KY. They ended up seeking approval from the State Dept of Financial Institutions to have their medical practice operate as a trust company only for their retirement plan and got approval. So the PC became the trustee for all the accounts.

Luke, the internet hasn't made things easier, it's just allowed for more things to be piled on.

I remember calling banks back in the late 80's/early 90's. They got very annoyed with the calls after the first 10-12.

If it was filed timely, an extension to 10/16/23 could be requested for a calendar year 2022 plan.

So the plan was terminated 10/17/2022. When were the assets distributed? If not until 2023, then the 2022 year is still a full year. But that would still mean 7/31/2023 would be the deadline for filing the extension.

And amend to everyone in their own group going forward.

Lou, Op's situation is a little different from this. Your client is paying cash unless the participant chooses to defer. The OP's client is making a PS contribution unless the participant chooses cash. Still can be done and I've had a handful of plans that did the latter over the years, but it's not very common.

Frankly, it doesn't matter if any of us are concerned or not. It's all a lottery (and I kinda mean the short story version). We had a 5558 for calendar year 2021 that was filed timely and received by the service in Ogden before July 31, 2022 (certified mail return receipt signed and dated). The IRS sent a CP216H rejection to our client dated July 31, 2023. Not the only silly thing to happen in the past 12 months with 5558s. Thank goodness electronic filing is just around the corner.

The transaction you described is basically what needs to happen. What I would recommend is that the insurance guy contact his home office’s advanced consulting office and get the exact instructions on what to do. If he refuses, tell the client to hire an ERISA attorney. Lots of possible liability sitting here. wcp

I assume you're putting the old EIN in question 4 of the 5500 ez? That would tie to the 5558 anyway. I would do that and wait for a letter. We have to deal with rejected 5558s for no good reason anyway.