Bri

And if the HCEs get their 3% as profit sharing rather than as the safe harbor nonelective, you get to impute disparity on it when general testing with other benefits. You'll appreciate that difference exactly once in your career but it'll be worth it!

those IRS statements are what I'd call "necessary but NOT sufficient"

That doesn't sound right, as an EPCRS correction like this is all taxable in the year of payout. Answer would change if this were a 402(g) excess, though.

Why couldn't they have a multiple employer plan?

Do you, in your software, utilize separate line-item accounting for the hard assets versus the receivable? If so, you can probably check a box in the software to exclude the receivable sub-account from the calculations. Like if account #201 is the mutual funds and account 202 is the receivable, only account 201 gets included.

(and if loans are automatically due/payable upon termination of employment, you're looking directly at 6/30 even if the guy tried to make some partial repayments now thinking following the schedule buys him into a future quarter.)

Aren't top heavy values done on a cash basis in a PS plan after the first year?

The problems are (1) a SIMPLE can be a company's only retirement plan for the year (save for the new SECURE 2 language letting companies convert midyear specifically to a safe harbor 401k plan) so having a SEP for the same year would run afoul, and (2) if you own both businesses, the IRS will look at the companies under common control as though they were one single employer for benefits testing. In other words, just having a second plan (for the sole prop) would require you to consider the LLC's employees in terms of the overall who-can-get-what

I would think 10 should be okay in your test, but how to code that is definitely a different issue.

First thing - does your plan sponsor actually pay those types of wages such that you "need" to account for it? If so, then you then will have to decide (if the plan doesn't do that for you) how 414s comp will be defined for your testing. Sounds like it may not be allocation-eligible compensation, but could still need to be part of your testing compensation.

I'd include him with those wages. If they'd been paid fully in 2022 that pay would have counted as eligible for everything and I wouldn't suggest the employer somehow gets an "out" here because the final paycheck delayed into the next year.

I read that as age 62 is 3 years early, so her normal retirement benefit gets multiplied by 12/15

Plan excludes non-resident aliens with no U.S. source income, right? This is someone who doesn't live in the US and also isn't a US citizen?

I suppose in the big picture, the IRS would have to (a) choose the plan, (b) be aware of the rule, and (c) interpret the rule specifically to say a money market transfer would indeed not count. But as it does apply towards specifically the MRC, perhaps there's an "easy" out if the sponsor exceeds the MRC by 50,000 or more for the year. The plan document does specify employer contributions will be made in cash. Anyway, Peter's comments are sort of my original thoughts - if this *is* a mild blip in terms of doing it perfectly, what's the proper fix? Returned as a mistake of fact or based in nondeductibility, and then re-contributed as "actual" cash? Sell it for cash (to whom) ASAP and then re-purchase it with that cash? Is there a 15% penalty for the use of the money by the plan for a month? Seems like a molehill with mountainesque ambitions.

Right, (MM = money market) fund. Not *actual* cash, correct?

50,000 in a has-a-ticker-symbol MM fund transferred in kind to a owner-only DB plan last month as a calendar year plan's 2023 deposit. Smells bad because it's not really cash. Am I right? (And what's the way out of it? I read a bunch of past threads here and it sounded like "sell it at arm's length" but who's gonna pay this guy's plan 50,000 in actual cash to buy his plan's mutual fund?) Thanks! --bri

Then everyone's earned the right to the 8% already simply by being employed. I don't know for sure how aggressive it's considered to say, okay you'll get 8% of your pay up through the date we make the change but then some other stated X% after that effective date through the end of the year.

You mention 1000 hours for vesting, and no service (for eligibility?) but does the plan require 1000 hours for an allocation?

(And of course, thanks for leaving me a bunch of plans to have to take over on! 😁)

Wow, I'm not usually the participant in my posts! My wife and I are in an HDHP through my work, but due to some less-than-optimal coverage she is looking at enrolling in an individual ACA plan this week to start 2/1. I may stay on my work's plan (not calendar year). If so, does that affect my use of the HSA associated with it? I'd presume only my expenses would be eligible to be paid from it. Or does anything conflict such that I lose my eligibility? And the annual maximum contributions would be what, the individual limit times 1.083333? I don't know if her plan choice will qualify as an HDHP - if it does, is that fine? We'd be in two separate plans that qualify, so perhaps we could continue with the HSA (although my work wouldn't care about her plan's benefits or fund anything on her behalf) with the full 8300 limit? Am I close? (This is why I stick to the retirement plan side of the boards!) Thanks in advance. --bri

I'm not sure why people would bring in their LTPTs for anything else beyond what they're being forced to bring them in for. If you want them in for more, change your regular eligibility.

I suppose the document might say if the participants fail to give the trustees their investment instructions, there could be a provision that it falls back to the trustees' prudent judgment. And if a properly discloses SPD tells participant they can choose their own, and they then didn't go and choose anything.....

Millions for a 2-3 year plan sounds more like a 415 issue than it does a permanency issue!

Hey, if it weren't for changes like these, all our required CE sessions would be the same.....dang.....topics.....every time. I can only hear Derrin talk about net earnings from self-employment or management functions in ASGs so many times! 🔞

Basically run the test results twice, and merge the proper "halves" (allocations / accrual) as appropriate for delivery to file/sponsor.