RatherBeGolfing

We have a lot of pooled plans and we provide a list of Assets & Liabilities with the SAR & benefit statements. From what I have seen, most practitioners provide a similar A&L. Its either a list of assets and liabilities with amounts at the end of the year, or a list with amounts at the beginning and end of the year. Not that complicated.

Florida TPA here. We DO address this with our clients, as do several of our "friendly competitors". We do not require that they pay the doc stamp, but we make them aware of it and explain the state requirement. The state of Florida has been very clear that 401(k) loans are included, but it really isn't enforced at all. I haven't heard of them actually going after anyone for not having the doc stamps on loans. My guess is that they will collect from people who pay it rather than actually going after the "uncollected tax" and getting into the preemption issue (they are well aware that it is ignored). I know plenty of industry experts who dismiss the doc stamp requirement as unenforceable should Florida decide to go after all the plans with loans that have the required Florida connection. We have clients who pay the doc stamp tax, not many, but some. As a practitioner her in Florida, there isn't much we can do other than address the issue and leave it up to the client to make the payment.

My document defaults to allow refinancing (subject to IRS regs) but with an option to not allow it. I haven't looked for it either but I'm sure there are some out there.

I don't think I have seen one without a cure period, but I have seen shorter cure periods than the maximum (like end of the month following). I think we all agree that the cure period allows them to catch up on the loan payments, so for that reason the terminology in the Rev Proc is irrelevant. The question for me is whether that is their only option. Under the Rev Proc, you could also reamortize the loan over the remaining payments, but I'm not sure if that is an option under most loan policies. If it is not available until after default, it gets a little trickier.

rp-19-19 New.pdf This copy should have retained the original formatting but with added page numbers in the TOC. You should also be able to click the line in the TOC and have it take you to the page in question. I'll probably make a re-formatted one with less pages and TOC that goes down 5 levels (Part 1 / Section 1 / .01 / (1) / (a)) but I'm not sure when I'll have time to do it.

I'll share it here for anyone who wants a copy. I actually prefer to do things like that myself because I'm a little particular when it comes to notes and reference material...

PenChecks sponsors it through ASPPA (and I think they do the same with NIPA). Lots of old links are dead with the new ASPPA website unfortunately. @Sammiemor you can find out more about the scholarship here https://www.asppa.org/penchecks-scholarship

I havent seen one yet. I'm making a clickable TOC with a link to each section/item, but I have family in town so probably wont finish it until next week. I'll share it here when its done. It will retain all the original pages with an added custom TOC in front

Nope. I think you are dead on, but I don't think there is anywhere in 2019-19 (that I have seen) that allows for "correcting a correction" under SCP. It may be one of those cases where the RKs have to catch up and ask clients whether they want to deem at the end of the cure period or do nothing and wait for the PA to pick the correction method. There will also be plenty of conversations with IRS (and DOL) on this that will probably help flesh out the details.

Yes. the QNEC triggers gateway even if participant does not qualify for the PS.

My guess is that the transactions are ok (recorded properly) but the reporting is horrible. The alternative is that this RK has bad or no internal controls in its system and treats forfeiture as a earnings, which I really doubt. Bad reporting isn't that uncommon though this seems to be an extreme case. I think this is one of those situations where you roll up your sleeves and really dig into what you have and try to pull it apart and piece together your own "report". There will be times when you will need to go to the former RK for clarification on a transaction, but they should be able to provide that without the need for a new report and hourly charges.

Should be treated the same as terminated and paid out participant. I believe the 5500 Preparer's Manual had a note about terminating plans where assets transferred to another plan, saying that an SAR would be prudent in that case, but no SAR requirement for a terminated plan with no assets left. I have an older copy of it somewhere but an office move can make anything disappear

A former local competitor of ours covered both employees and families 100%, at least pre-ACA. They were pretty generous with other benefits as well. Their reasoning was pretty simple, take care of your employees and they will take care of you. They had very little turnover until they got acquired by one of the national firms. I don't think any of the employees were left after two years.

Eligible without an account balance is required to receive the SAR, no question about that. What isn't 100% clear is whether a terminated participant who has been paid out before the end of the plan year is required to receive the SAR. Standard practice seems to be term with no balance at the end of the year does not get an SAR, but it sort of depends on where you draw the line. The regs just say participant and beneficiary. Many interpret that as "at the end of the year" rather than "at any point during the plan year". I know Janice Wegesin's 5500 Preparer's Manual agreed with the former but I don't think it had a direct citation. Absent anything directly on point, I think either interpretation is reasonable.

Well we have established that its legal. My comment was in regards to the "fairness" aspect

I think its distinguishable. The spouse and children are tacked on to the employees coverage under a plan chosen by the employer where rates have been established. I see that as different from "employer pays X's child's tuition". To me, the benefit is what is available to you, not what the company paid for it. So in this instance, what is offered to OP is the same as what is offered to co-worker, 100% paid coverage for employee and spouse/children if applicable. That is the benefit. That it costs the employer more for co-worker is not unfair to OP because OP is not harmed by what the employer pays for co-workers coverage. OP would also not benefit more if the employer decided to only cover employees. The employer would probably put the "cost savings" to use somewhere else or maybe it would just end up in the pocket of the owner. What is up for debate is whether its fair for co-worker to be able to cover a spouse while OP couldn't opt to cover a non-married partner. Co-worker could meet a spouse and get married on the spot and spouse would be eligible, while OP could have a 10 year partner that isn't covered. I'm not arguing that the public policy itself is fair.

I agree, it's in the eye of the beholder. If OP lost out on something because of the additional cost for co-worker, I would agree that it's at least arguably unfair. But its not like the employer would pay their widget testers more if the benefit cost went down, that excess would go elsewhere. So what the company pays for co-workers insurance does not harm OP. OP could also cover spouse and children at 100% paid by the employer, so the benefit offered is identical. Lets switch it to retirement benefits instead. OP and CW both receive contributions to a pension plan. Their benefit is identical, $1000 a month payable at age 65. OP is slightly younger than CW so the employer cost for CW is higher. Is that unfair to OP? I'll agree to disagree, but to me, employer cost and employee compensation are apples and oranges.

I think it's pretty unreasonable. The benefit is identical (100% of health ins to employee and spouse/children). The fact that OP does not have a spouse or children to cover does not make the benefit unfair. The employers cost for that benefit is an entirely separate issue.

Absolutely, but VCP for a simple loan fix just adds to the VCP backup.

Looks like we still need to keep the pressure on the DOL...

Rev. Proc. 2019-19

Expanded Self Correction Program - EPCRS Rev. Proc. 2019-19 Only glanced at it, but early Christmas on Easter from the IRS??

§ 2520.104b-10(a) ...shall furnish annually to each participant of such plan and to each beneficiary receiving benefits under such plan... If there is no balance, there is no participant or beneficiary. I don't have a copy of the 5500 preparer's manual anymore, but I know that one of the prior editions said that there was no SAR requirement for a terminee who was paid before the end of the plan year. 12/31/2018 plan year Participant paid out 12/30/18 - no 2018 SAR required(12/31/18 is a toss up for me) Participant paid out 1/1/2019 - 2018 SAR required.

Derrin has also written on the topic in "Who's the Employer" Q&A 100: Illegal Aliens As Employees Q&A 205: Illegal Aliens and the Supreme Court

I think this is rare unless the CPA is also doing the qualified plan. Its usually a back and forth between the CPA and the person doing the benefit calculation. They lean on us pretty heavily when the partners and sole props are pushing for their returns. Some CPAs are more in tune than others and know what we need each year, while we have to drag it out of others line by line. Far too many accountants/CPAs don't even have a firm grasp of what compensation can actually be used for plan purposes to begin with, which is scary enough on its own.