Pammie57 Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 A small business client has a 401k Plan that has to pass the ADP test for 2018. They are not Safe harbor. As of 10/1 the 100% owner is selling the stock to two previously rank and file employees . The plan has always passed the ADP test in prior years because the owner only deferred 2 percent more than these employees did. So my question is this - as of the end of the year - who is considered an HCE for the ADP test??. Do the two new owners join the former owner in the HCE group?? - or does the previous owner become part of the NHCE group for ADP testing? There are 3 other eligible NHCE"s who defer nothing. Any way around this for the year of sale? It looks like a possibility of the plan failing ADP. There is no match to consider.
C. B. Zeller Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 Assuming both of the 2 new owners are >5% owners, all 3 are HCE for 2018 and 2019. Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
Lou S. Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 I'm assuming this is a calendar year plan. You look at the highest percentage ownership at any point in the year in 2018 to determine HCEs. You are likely going to fail ADP and have to refund all deferrals if you have no NHCEs contributing. Now might all be a good time to see if this plan is going to be top-heavy for 2019 and suggest making it a safe-harbor for next year.
Pammie57 Posted September 27, 2018 Author Posted September 27, 2018 The new owners will own the business 50/50 so yes they are greater than 5% owners... We did highly suggest a safe harbor plan for 2019, but these guys didn't see the big picture and only heard that the safe harbor contribution would be Required each year and be 100% vested. ..... We suggested the match since so few participate and got a No. I don't think they realize they are limiting themselves so much......
Lou S. Posted September 27, 2018 Posted September 27, 2018 Make sure they know about the top heavy minimum for 2019.
Larry Starr Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 13 hours ago, Pammie57 said: The new owners will own the business 50/50 so yes they are greater than 5% owners... We did highly suggest a safe harbor plan for 2019, but these guys didn't see the big picture and only heard that the safe harbor contribution would be Required each year and be 100% vested. ..... We suggested the match since so few participate and got a No. I don't think they realize they are limiting themselves so much...... And you recognize that IF the plan is top heavy (IS IT?), the match safe harbor doesn't work but the non-elective 3% does? Lawrence C. Starr, FLMI, CLU, CEBS, CPC, ChFC, EA, ATA, QPFC President Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. 46 Daggett Drive West Springfield, MA 01089 413-736-2066 larrystarr@qpc-inc.com
Tom Poje Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 going forward (e.g. for 2019), if the only contributions are deferrals and safe harbors then if the card isn't good enough, then the Code 416(g)(4)(H) can be used (H) Cash or deferred arrangements using alternative methods of meeting nondiscrimination requirementsThe term “top-heavy plan” shall not include a plan which consists solely of— (i) a cash or deferred arrangement which meets the requirements of section 401(k)(12) or 401(k)(13), and (ii) matching contributions with respect to which the requirements of section 401(m)(11) or 401(m)(12) are met. justanotheradmin, Bill Presson and C. B. Zeller 3
QP_Guy Posted September 28, 2018 Posted September 28, 2018 Given the results, perhaps a suggestion around timing and structure of the sale of the company would be in order. In other words, maybe a 10/1 sale date with a "damn the testing torpedoes" approach is not best.
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