John K Posted June 20, 2024 Posted June 20, 2024 This is a bit of a weird question, but would anyone be able to cite IRS code that dictates the 20% mandatory withholding policy? There is a participant that has immense medical expenses that are itemized on their return and will not owe any taxes. The CPA wants to know why I can't waive the mandatory withholding. They've sent over a W-4R and explained that according to the IRS, this form will allow the election of 0% withheld. I'm certain that this does not allow the withholding to be lower than 20%, but I can't find a good citation to express this. I am aware of topic No. 412, but they are caught up on the 'lump sum' 'entire account balance' language. The plan allows the participant to take a partial distribution, but I'm pretty sure this mandatory withholding rule would still apply.
Popular Post WDIK Posted June 20, 2024 Popular Post Posted June 20, 2024 26 U.S. Code § 3405 - Special rules for pensions, annuities, and certain other deferred income (c)Eligible rollover distributions (1)In general In the case of any designated distribution which is an eligible rollover distribution— (A)subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply, and (B)the payor of such distribution shall withhold from such distribution an amount equal to 20 percent of such distribution. (2)Exception Paragraph (1)(B) shall not apply to any distribution if the distributee elects under section 401(a)(31)(A) to have such distribution paid directly to an eligible retirement plan. (3)Eligible rollover distribution For purposes of this subsection, the term “eligible rollover distribution” has the meaning given such term by section 402(f)(2)(A). Luke Bailey, John K, ugueth and 2 others 5 ...but then again, What Do I Know?
C. B. Zeller Posted June 20, 2024 Posted June 20, 2024 WDIK has the correct code cite. In addition, the instructions to Form W-4R state (emphasis added): Quote Eligible rollover distributions—20% withholding. Distributions you receive from qualified retirement plans (for example, 401(k) plans and section 457(b) plans maintained by a governmental employer) or tax-sheltered annuities that are eligible to be rolled over to an IRA or qualified plan are subject to a 20% default rate of withholding on the taxable amount of the distribution. You can’t choose withholding at a rate of less than 20% (including “-0-”). Note that the default rate of withholding may be too low for your tax situation. You may choose to enter a rate higher than 20% on line 2. Don’t give Form W-4R to your payer unless you want more than 20% withheld. Of course, this assumes that the distribution in question is an eligible rollover distribution. Is it? If this is a 401(k) hardship distribution, for example, that would not be an eligible rollover distribution and the 10% (not 20%) automatic withholding could be waived. ugueth, John K, justanotheradmin and 1 other 4 Free advice is worth what you paid for it. Do not rely on the information provided in this post for any purpose, including (but not limited to): tax planning, compliance with ERISA or the IRC, investing or other forms of fortune-telling, bird identification, relationship advice, or spiritual guidance. Corey B. Zeller, MSEA, CPC, QPA, QKA Preferred Pension Planning Corp.corey@pppc.co
John K Posted June 21, 2024 Author Posted June 21, 2024 Thank you, WDIK & C. B. Zeller! This has come down to a clarification of terminology. It is an eligible rollover distribution from a qualified employer plan. The 'nonperiodic payments' section of the W4-R instructions was the culprit for their misunderstanding. Only applicable to IRAs... Thanks again!
Peter Gulia Posted June 21, 2024 Posted June 21, 2024 If the distributee is employed and perceives that Federal income tax withholding on the eligible rollover distribution might result in too much paid-in toward the year’s Federal income tax, the individual might evaluate whether to lower withholding from wages for the remainder of the year. While the plan’s administrator and its service providers might not present such a suggestion, the certified public accountant might consider it. Luke Bailey and John K 2 Peter Gulia PC Fiduciary Guidance Counsel Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 215-732-1552 Peter@FiduciaryGuidanceCounsel.com
John K Posted June 21, 2024 Author Posted June 21, 2024 Great point, Peter. I believe they've prevented withholding anywhere possible due to extremely high medical expenses, but I will mention it (Excess of 1M). Unfortunately, this is not a situation where the withholding can be avoided. They will just have to wait for the refund. Thanks for your comment!
Popular Post Bri Posted June 21, 2024 Popular Post Posted June 21, 2024 of course they could roll the proceeds to an IRA, avoid the 20% withholding, and then turn around and raid the IRA without mandatory withholding. acm_acm, Luke Bailey, John K and 5 others 7 1
CuseFan Posted June 21, 2024 Posted June 21, 2024 Bingo! Bri hit the nail on the head. John K 1 Kenneth M. Prell, CEBS, ERPA Vice President, BPAS Actuarial & Pension Services kprell@bpas.com
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